Rodriguez: The UAW Pensions Must Come Down

The pension money was suppose to be put away as the years went by,when the the individual was a active employee. A retiree`s pension should be funded already. I`m waiting for government employees and retirees to be hit soon. All of this didn`t just happen folks.It was planned. The powers that be want to take it all away.

The auto companies should have been planning for the pensions a long time ago. They promised the money and better pay up. It is there own fault for not planning, the workers should not suffer. Where is corporate integrity?

Some very fine points were made in the interview, especialy when the subject of pension garuntee limits was touched on. I think an appropriate question for the UAW would be, if the Detroit three go out of business what's next? I mean at that point their batting average is 1000, every auto company they ever signed a contract with saw its shareholders wiped out(widows and orphans included). and eventually went out of business. Are those pesky foreign transplants next? If they are I've some bad news for the UAW, I don't see Toyota et al, sending all their equity to a bunch of bloated coach potatoes sporting UAW badges.

Brian, There should be no decrease of pensions to existing workers. They worked hard for that pension and they deserve it. Bob H

Brian: The vast amount of debt issued to GM,currently stands at $43.3Bn in short,and long term maturities. GM is technically insolvent as I write, to the tune of (-$59.9Bn.) The auto industry "UAW Pension Plan" is run by(PBGC)"Pension Benefit Gaurantee Corporation",under it's Director Mr. Charles Millard. There are currently 44 million contributors (workers nationally)total in the US. The "PBGC" has 29 thousand different pension fund plans, with an annual payout of $2.5 Bn. Total assets are $63 Bn with total liabilities currently at $74 Bn. Mr. Millard says that because pension payouts are fixed annually, there is no disruption to the outflows,or the balance sheet so long as the market stabalizes. Unfortunately for GM to weather the storm they must immediately renegotiate all (UAW) contracts currently, and with-in the last year or so, to bring those "Toxic"pensions in line with compeditors, along with health care benefit packages. This is paramount for a successful transition to solvency. If the UAW refuses to come to terms the company will most likely go ("forced", is such a harsh word) into "Chapter 7". Thanks! PS. Keep up the good reading,...

Great points in the interview; finally someone who admits the retirees have to take a cut. Sorry guys, but reality does set in. If Congress would ease up on the CAFE and safety standards; would this help the Big 3 compete? Foreign cars get much higher mileage; yet the US will not allow those to be imported. We are now talking about the potential for $1 a gallon gasoline again. Oil is down to $35 a barrel. Congress is now talking about REQUIRING GM to produce X amount of electric cars in return for the "loans". The reason the Hybrids are not doing so well is they cannot overcome the cost difference versus the mileage difference. There is a differnce when gas is $4 a gallon; it is not worth it at $1 a gallon. The Hybrid batteries only last about 5 years and cost about $7,000. The car won't even be worth that in 5 years. Regardless of what Congress does; no amount of money will help these companies unless the Consumer begins to walk back into the dealerships and purchase cars from them. Why do we not have these types of debates with AIG who received over 10X what GM did? Fanny Mae; Freddy Mac and all the others? WE know the issue with GM; what about the others. How much money will GM be able to access now that GMAC has been authorized to become a BANK? TARP funds ON THE WAY? How much does GM get now?

What a bunch of UAW haters without facts. I can't believe you watch all that biz news and don't know much about auto industry. This is a revenue problem, not a cost problem, right? B3 have constant loss of market share and then economic crisis crashes industry sales by 35%. You can't solve that by cutting UAW labor that is 10% of costs. Kim R is a well-known UAW basher, so Fox got what they wanted from the guest. Pensions are not so much the problem, it is the retiree health care that is at risk and has caused the problem. PBGC more than covers UAW pension amount for those in their 60's - its the early out guys that get trimmed. Would you be shocked to know that Toyota offers retiree health care at its US plants? That it offers 30 and out too? That it also keeps the paychecks going while there is no production? That is why every state wants auto plant - they can support great jobs! Just a little google folks before you base the hate on facts that don't exist.

Pension Benefit Guarantee is like AIG insurance; a fraud. Employers use ERISA to deny benefits! They do not need a reason for termination with most major corperations. Responsibility for the interpretation and enforcement of ERISA is divided among the Department of Labor, the Department of the Treasury (particularly the Internal Revenue Service), and the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. The denial of all claims filed for wrongful terminations in 2007 was 98% with the DOL; and settlements are less then 8% of what is owed to the 2% who refuse to go away. Where did the money go? Would you believe $5,000.00 call girls?

Never ceases to amaze me all these people with so-called expert advice that never worked in an automotive assembly plant. We were never offered 401K plans with matching funds that most workers enjoy. So now you are telling us that we are to be cut off our pensions that most of us have planned and worked for over 30 years. Working in a assembly plant is not easy most have never had air conditioning until the last few years. I personally seen many a college grad quit after four hours because the work was too hard. Most UAW workers are decent hard working family oriented individuals. We sacrificed our bodies and lives for the end game of a secure retirement.

The solution is simple. They need to treat the current hourly (UAW represented) workforce the same as the salaried (non-UAW) workforce is treated - especially in terms of how pensions are granted. In other words, eliminate future "30-and-out" pensions regardless of age. If they feel that the "30-and-out" pension is sacrosanct, simply eliminate the "regardless of age" provision and change it to something like 60 years old. In this manner, the guy hiring in at 18 cannot simply raise his/her hand and walk out with a full pension at 48 years of age. That person would have to remain until age 60. The difference in pension payout (in this example) would save the corporation 12 full years of pension payout. In a typical case - an employee hiring in at 20 or 21 years of age, the savings would be more in the neighborhood of 9-10 years. That is a ton of money saved and would still leave the "30-and-out" pension concept essentially intact, saving face for the UAW (and probably their jobs.) Just a thought that I wonder if any of the media will actually pick up on and run with. Maybe.

Let's start with a reduction of the over the top benefits provided politicians.

The whole saga stinks. The "big"3 have a bloated cost structure all the way around - not just with their labor pool. However, that pool is more pampered than most of America, and we find it galling in the extreme that we are being asked to fund their "turnaround". The UAW membership is owed way more than the companies are worth - why don't they just exchange those obligatyions for equity, buying the car companies and be done with it? Maybe they don't think it is any better an investment than the entire financial world does. I smell a rat

Comment by RON is RIGHT ON! Sixty years old should be a minimum age to retire with retirement benefits. Then the question should be how much should auto workers retire with. Receiving 80% of pre retirement salary is too much and also too much like government workers who also need to be looked at. I know of no comannies now that provide company paid medical plans; most provide retiree plans with assisted medical premiums by the company.

UAW and let's also add in SSI/SSA. I've always anticipated a move to dump the SSI coffers onto wall street to 'save the day' It's not entirely impossible, but really? 2 trillion hard - 'iou's ? against ? 500 + trillion in unbalanced, delayed, deferred, however you want to see it, debt. Now, at the end of the day - you can leverage all you want but I think a 5th grader playing Hasbro Risk knows the 'risks' involved. Global derivatives as to Hasbro Risk ? Oh, silly me, the idea of the 'game' is that there ARE formal rules. I keep thinking back to Lord of the Flies. Now there is a situation that needs to hit the PlayStation 3 playform.. er, platform. LOTF. be capitalistpiggy.com running for his eyeglasses. how can there be a 'my' in money ? when the entire contract rides on a far wider integrative societal participative, er participation ? I'm not saying it is the peasants desires of what money can bring that give value to those that hold it, but I do say it is a societal device, for liquid intercommerce interchange the way I see it. Beyond that, you really can't 'pocket it' more than you can 'pocket' the community integrity backing its value, which isn't spatial, or temporal, making it all the more difficult to 'pocket'. Seems to me there is device to capitalism, there is also improper venue too. Seems the latter is pardonable, no, unpardonable.

If collective barganing agreements were even close to "arms length transactions" in the U.S., I might care about the UAW workers. They are not, so I don't care. I feel the same about government workers. Just think what would happen if they all had to work until age 67. No bailouts needed for anyone.

I like how some people inherit from genetics, inherit from culture (language, science etc), inherit even money culture... But then ? they think they can claim 'mine mine mine' Yet ? The tools that got them moving along were inherited, genetics from the genome, language and economics from culture etc.... and yet ? Somehow people really think money is to be pocketed. Imagine someone trying to pocket a word. And people do. Language allows us a far richer experience, and if not, there wouldn't be anything to say about it ! Money too should work this way, but yet ? Somehow people think they can pocket words or money. It's all debt notes, the problem is we've lost touch with the symbol and what the symbol represents (sounds so familiar eh ? ) and now the debt on paper is out of touch with reality as to the debt in reality. We've to some degree forfeited the integrity of the financial system here by allowing debt from say CountryWide's early mortgages to actually be TREATED and traded as REAL debt. That's the real loss we're all facing. We damaged the potential respect FOR money by allowing the transition of mortgage products that were built on SAND on a beach with RISING waters (hey, ever notice a lot of those early countrywide mortgages were COASTAL, and of COURSE global warming doesn't exist, otherwise, why ? oh wait, the coastal insurance HAS already risen WITH the waters ) into mainstream as if the products HAD integrity, when they didn't. And now ? We ALL pay

No shortage of opinions from fat cat analysis and new media host. I dont see a slowdown in their employment, as long as they can produce ratings by stirring emotions and drama thru commentary. I want to see how they would react if FOX, CNN, MSNBC, and other new organizations would have to cut broadcasting host and thier programs, or thier current salaries and benifits due to lack of advertising from major companies who are strapped for advertising cash. Oh, yea, they sign contracts so the news outlets are bound by contract to pay the compensation package agreed upon. Wonder why that differs from the benifits offered by major companies after working for 25 to 35 years. Maybe its becuase of uppwr class vs middle class. I have yet to hear anyone of them complain at the current economy, as to how they are being hit. Their commentaries with guest analysis are more pointed to point fingers at every issue instead of just reporting the news. Plenty of opinions, but opinons vary like the wind, it depends from where the wind is blowing.

If those retirees had EARNED those fat pensions, then the money would be there. There is no way it was earned. Retire at age 52 (per Wagoner)!! Do not ask me to pay for that! I have yet to hear the amount of the average UAW pension. It must be outrageous! Why else it a top secret? Want to get taxpayers excited over bailing out this pig? Oh, and what is the percentage of "new hires" that are actually getting the "competitive wages"? It can not be significant.

Enron should have been a red flag as to what kind of pensions and retirements people can expect. It doesn't take long to go tracking the river of debt in the US Social Security Administration to find yet another house of cards. Don't get me wrong, I'm not religious, and I find most religion to be politics in disguise- and disgust to favor a potential typo there. But it seems capitalism without spirituality brings about an unbalance and potential exploit to the entire system. Some might argue the automobile split the extended family model, or air travel. Either way - the extended family model is not so prevalent I'd say - and we shove the parents off to the home, and the kids we shove debt onto like they aren't going to be servants paying off today's lavish spendings. I see only one path that this nation state model could work before nationalism evolves to globalism - which it is... and that is establishing manufacturing jobs potential - and or services, I don't think the US would be choice #1 for financial services anymore heh... Seems energy resources is always #1 - no heat, you die, it's that simple, and if old enough, no electricity for air conditioning in the summer these days- you die. Once you get past climate, it's just gravity issues with cars etc... I'm all pro electric, but not if it comes off a coal fired grid. Seems all in all ? if I had to sum up what I anticipate has happened in the last 15 + years ? uh oh, out of space here. 1500 char limit rea

If the UAW pensions must come down. Let us consider what people would say if the US had to cancel the SSA program because it couldn't afford it anymore ? Which is closer to the truth. Social Security again was perhaps a band-aid solution that was trying to make up for humanities inhumanity to humanity. I'd say you can't have a functional economic foundation that's not build on a solid foundation promoting education first. Greenspan said this in the late 90's - that if the US doesn't focus on education first, we're looking at a jobs nightmare not so far down the road. And here we are. People forget, hey, if you aren't selling cars, you won't have a job for long. Sure people won't HELOC their homes up to get a new car, in part because they now pay ON HELOC's against their homes prior inflated value... So, everyone who HELOC'd is facing 20, 30, 40, 50k + loans they took off their homes as their property value went off the charts... Not unlike oil feeding itself to 150. People will start buying cars when they have their home debt settled - and as it stands - most everyone was caught borrowing off of a home price that just wasn't realistic. If the US can't manufacture manufacturing jobs - sheesh, even the Mexican's will stop coming. I'd say any Mexican citizen entering the US, if you said 'here ya go, full citizenship, just sign here that you'll be helping to pay for the 7 trillion to funds like TARP - and well - that or join the military which is it ? ' outofspa

BLAH BLAH BLAH. GM and Chrysler are failures. Period. Let the creditors force them into bankruptcy and divide up the residual between the creditors. The survivors get bigger, the failures fall by the wayside. The shareholders, workers, and pensioners all bet on the wrong horse. It sucks to be them. Life goes on without them.

I am sick and tired of hearing that taxpayers "must" bail out union auto workers and retirees "or else". Do you folks not have any idea where government money comes from? It doesn't grow on trees, it's taken from individuals, by force by the government in the form of income taxes. Yes, it looks like you are in a bad situation. Your union strong armed so much out of the auto companies that the companies can no longer survive. Now you don't give a damn what happens to anybody else as long as you get what you want. The money given out already had to be borrowed from China, it will have to be repaid on the backs of the taxpayers. I understand you aren't happy about losing your bloated benefits packages, but you are NOT more important than everyone else. Taxpayers did not make any agreement with you, why shoud we will be the ones to suffer loss of our income, retirement, and medical care because YOU killed YOUR source of income by getting so greedy? You are not better than the rest of us, and frankly you are acting like a bunch of greedy pigs, you insist you should have yours even if it takes food off of other peoples tables. Even seeing that the comapnies just do not have the money and are begging for more from the taxpayers you are so incredibly greedy that you refuse to even negotiate.

UAW pension is a part of the workers compensation package(contract).They will do the right thing. I must have missed the call to limit the compensation of bank CEO's and wall street fat cats who created this mess..

The pensions were contracted and agreed to....but faced with the very real prospect of putting the underlying company out of business they should be put on the table.

Remove "early retirement" options and do not allow retirement with full pension until age 60 with at least 10 years of service. This will reduce the number of people where the company pays more years of pension than the employee worked for the company.