Presser Reaction: UAW Keeps Talking About Wages, Not Talking About Legacy Costs

Judging by the responses to my post no one is familiar with the fact that we have contract negotiations. I don't walk into my plant managers office with a gun and a couple of "thugs" and tell'em how its gonna be. Guys this isn't the 1930's and organized crime is not part of the equation any longer. During these negotiations proposals are exchanged and we try to meet on common ground. When our contracts are negotiated I act as an agent for my co-workers. My job is to secure wage and benefit increases in line with inflation, which I have done despite the fact that our company has been in bankruptcy since 2001. Jeff C. thanks for your service, I am a third generation war veteran, I just didn't enjoy school, my father who works with me has three years of college thanks to the G.I. bill. I bought GM stock in July and I'm not as young as you think.

THE UAW COULD RAISE DUES AND FUND THE EXCESS COSTS THEMSELVES. SAVE THE COMPANIES AND THE UNION WOULD APPEAR TO BE A GOOD ORGANIZATION. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?

We have only one weapon: Boycott! Every poll I see says the vast majority of Americans do not support this buy-off of the UAW. Talk to your friends, your relatives, set up a website, send emails, write letters to editors of newspapers, imagine and employ every medium you can conceive. Push the word: Do not buy Ford, GM or Chrysler; you are being screwed. And, in not buying from the Big 3, not only do we break the back of this larceny, we get a dependable, re-saleable car instead of a piece of UAW Sh-T!! BOYCOTT!!!

THE UAW IN IT'S INFINITE WISDOM, REFUSES TO GIVE CONCESSIONS, WTF, NO PRODUCTION STANDARDS, NO ROBOTS, CANNOT FIRE THE BUMS WHETHER THEY WORK OR NOT. THE UNION IS AND HAS BEEN THE PROBLEM. WOULD THE UNION FLY COMMERCIAL? WOULD THE UNION SELL IT'S ENORMOUS PROPERTY AT BLACK LAKE? GIVE UP THE PERKS OF WORKING FOR THE INTERNATIONAL? LIMOS,ETC.? WHY ARE THE UNION OFFICIALS NOT ON THE LINE? WHAT ARE THE UNION OFFICIALS' SALARY? HOW MUCH DOES A COMPANY HAVE TO SPEND TO PROVIDE THE DOCUMENTATION WEEKLY/MONTHLY/QUARTERLY, ETC. TO THE UNION? GET A GRIP. SHIT-CAN THE UNION ALL UNIONS TEACHERS UNION ALMOST AS BAD IF NOT WORSE THAN UAW. EXCLUSIVE, ELITIST SNOBS WHO ARE NOT INTERESTED IN A COMPANY BEING PROFITABLE, THE INVESTMENT REQUIRED TO CONDUCT, EXPAND, DO RESEARCH OR PROMOTE A BUSINESS, THE UNION'S MYOPIC VIEW IS ONLY WHAT THEY CAN GET FOR THEMSELVES.. PHUC EM

There are two big issues in Detroit, capacity and costs. Ron Gettelfinger is the penultimate "union boss". He's either forgotten, or never studied the history of unions. Unions came about as a result of management that was abusing the workers. Now it's the opposite, unions abusing the companies. Detroit either has to get it's product quality up, costs down, and capacity in line with "todays" volume of car sales, OR, no matter how much money we pour into Detroit, they'll fail. All of them standing around thinking "the sun comes out tomorrow" is just wasting time. Bankruptcy is the only option for forcing, on all parties, immediate, substantial change. The taxpayer, if anything should be handling debtor-in-possession financing, after they've declared bankruptcy, and taking all of their "hard assets" as collateral. They're waiting for car sales to go back above the 10 million they'll probably see this year, and that's not going to happen anytime soon. It's time they recognized that if they can't find a way to at least survive, without cash infusions, in the current business climate, then they can't survive. Reality just sucks sometime, but you have to figure out how to make the necessary changes to survive. By giving them money, without them being in bankruptcy, you're not only NOT helping them, you're just making the problem worse.

My family sold GM product for years, I own GM stock, or what's left of it. It time for these companies and their unions to go. Survival of the fit, if you can't compete you die.

Jeff the steel worker … I am so infuriated by your insinuations that I can hardly see straight. All American’s have the ability to pursue whatever they want, but by no means does this guarantee any type of success. If you can provide food and shelter for your family that’s all you need. If your son doesn’t get a Wii for Christmas, my heart bleeds…so, that comment is just ignorant. Further, I have come to realize that union workers have hardly any idea of what benefits they receive from their union (I have many unionized friends, including future family members). Pensions are not something that all “business people” get. All of the business people that I know save in their 401K, that is pretty much it. Oh, and that thing called social security, (a lot of union, at least government related union workers, don’t pay) I will never ever see the money I pay to the government every pay check. I know this because I am 24. If my elitist snob college education serves me any good, I believe that they baby boomers will reach retirement before I do. While we are on the subject of college educations, let me tell you about my father. He put himself through college and graduate school and eventually became a small business owner of a tax practice. February through April every year my parents spent 20 hours (I kid you not) every day in that office helping people (a lot of union members since we are from a town were GM has a plant) make smart decisions regarding their personal finances. He has no pension; he has no lifetime health benefits. I am not complaining, I am simply saying that you sound like the elitist snob talking about what you shouldn’t be “denied.” From where I am sitting, if I take your line of reasoning it looks like us college graduates should be looking for the government hand out not the unions… And yes…the managers did make poor decisions but that still doesn’t entitle the rest of us to pay for it…

Why don't we just send the bailout check straight to the union to cover the legacy costs and bypass the companies. That is what we are doing anyway. This is your government in action.

Using tarp funds to cash flow the union...notice I did not say bail out the big three as that is not what we are doing. We are simply using tax payer debt to pay back the union for helping to deliver elections. If Bush agrees to this in the place of the deal trying to be worked out by others last night I will really begin to question who Bush is.

Jeff, 6ftrabbit is so right. No one owes you the right to a good living for your family, whether you went to college or not. I'm a small business owner. I left a secure paycheck and took a chance. Now I make much more than I would have made working for someone else. But I have to provide my own retirement plan and health insurance. No employer provides it for me, nor do I feel it is "owed" to me. I'm lucky that I make enough money to fund my own retirement and buy my own health insurance. But I made my own luck...I worked and still do work my *ss off to provide it. No one pays me 90% of my pay for not working during slow times because of some union contract. All Americans can pursue the American dream, but the union mentality, as you show in your post, is one of entitlement. You feel you are owed the American dream. Wake up dude!

Great business can pay great wages and give great benefits. Once upon a time making cars in the US was a great business. Does anyone over the age of 7 (and not institutionalized)believe making cars in the US is a great business? As the late Herbert Stien put it,"If something cannot go on forever, it won't."

The need for a bailout has come about from the union stronghold and the uncompetitive "big 3". Union wages have given workers a much better life than they earned, by forcing higher wages on the "big 3" to the point they are no longer competitive and many Americans are now buying foreign cars. If the American cars are not selling, the "big 3" cannot afford the excessive wages for the current, future or past employees. There is also a systemic problem with large bonuses to executives, as they should be paid on results only. Lastly, a bailout for the auto industry is telling other american employers they are not as important to the economy. Businesses close everyday based on poor performance, why is the "big 3" asking for a handout? Step up to the plate both unions and the company to turn these companies into profitable competitive companies, quit asking for a "free lunch" or go into bankrupcy.

I'm suprised that the UAW hasn't announced that they're going on strike until their demands for government money are met.

It took slightly less than a century for labor socialists to realize their goal of seizing the means of production. I refer, of course, to money. Unfortunately, money is only effective where there is a chance of profit, and non-protifable organizations do not produce additional money, but only consume cash and choke productive flows of money that might otherwise fo to other enterprises; such as the incomes of the households that provide the cash directly or indirectly. There is a reason banks won't lend to the big 3, it's called fiduciary responsibility (that is, faithfulness) to their depositers. What then, could be motivating the government to *give* cash where productive capital shuns to go? Certainly not faithfulness to the taxpayers.

I'm disgusted.....are we such a morally/finacially bankrupt country that we can allow this government bailout of the auto industry to go through??? The storm clouds are gathering and I don't think we, as a country let alone a single industry, are going to be able to withstand the coming winds...god help us, every one.

Apparently "restructuring" is rocket science. Would it be too much for the rest of us to hear words like - instead of paying $5 for prescriptions, we'll pay $15. Or perhaps ALL employees will take a small percentage pay cut. Or we'll all pay something for our health insurance. Something besides the CEO who has earned millions $$$$ will work for $1 for 1 year and we've made concession effective 2012. I have not heard 1 auto industry employee offer anything of substance that would assure me they are entertaining any realistic, tangible concessions for a bridge loan bailout. Pretty odd considering all they claim is at risk. All I hear are legacy costs, VEBA, we're negotiating, we have great cars. Enough already - time for all employees to step up before they put their hand out!

It is a tragedy for sure. There are great people at work in Detroit and in the business but as you point to the UAW, there are still tragic shortfalls. The wages themselves may be close to parity but the Job Banks issue has been a key factor in this mess. Requiring to pay 95% to NOT work incentivizes the bad behavior of making cars without real demand. Why pay nearly the same to produce nothing when you can make something and get SOMETHING? This is a practice that has to go.

In response to Jeff about college grads being elitests, I respond as follows. Why does a UAW auto worker who can learn his/her job in about 2-4 months deserve to earn upwards of $80K with benes most of us in the private sector can only dream of when he/her did not invest anything in their education? I put myself thru college when I returned from combat in Viet Nam - I was a draftee. In all my years, I have never takenn a dime of benefits from the VA because there were many who were maimed and in despair thru their struggle in this war. Do not lecture this college grad, young man - the market takes care of itself - the UAW also does so by holding up corporations with threats of strikes for better pay, etc. Look where it has gotten these great companies. Now, who is to blame? PS. I own GM Stock, so I am an owner.

Jeff,the American Dream is not taking my money,so you can have a job or better pay.I make more than most autoworkers,with a measly two year degree,and guess what,no union thug had to force anyone to pay me that much.I earned it with my own accomplishments.I'd feel ashamed to know that I couldn't garner more money on my own and had to have it extorted by a union.

Jeff, "pursuit" is the key word in your post. You are free to pursue whatever you want. No guarantees that you will catch it tho. Same goes for owning home, happiness, etc. Having been on both sides at various times in my working career I decided early on that relying on others to provide me with whatever, was futile. See to your own happiness. Big Unions are also Big Business.

no bailout!!! UAW would not participate so screw them. By the way, why blame the republicans when there are 49 democrats that could have vote yes on this, and they did not. Harry Reid even voted no.

This is total shame, when the elected officials of this country are slamed for doing their jobs. I for one own two GM products but the way I am thinking right now they will be the last American products that I buy from Detroit. I have a Honda motorcycle and from the looks of it I will have a Honda truck or car in the future.

Why is this about the UNION? Management has the same benefits make them give back their pay and benes they've made the poor decisions here not the workers. I am a member of the Steelworkers union I have the same benefits as the uaw, my pay is about the same, I am able to provide a good life for my family because of this,I want to know why I should be denied these things because I didn't go to college. It sounds to me you're a bunch of elitest scunbags. Whatever happened to the pursuit of the American dream for ALL AMERICANS!!

No Bailout! Gettlefinger is a true snake oil salesman. He is complaining in an article posted here titled 'UAW President: We're Being Treated Differently'. Yep - you and UAW are being treated differently than stakeholders - one simple reason - since the stakeholders did not reign you folks in, the very companies you work for are not profitable or stable - so someone other than stakeholders now MUST hold you accountable... If the UAW believes in these auto companies, and Gettlefinger believes as well as the CEO's - I say put up your personal assets if you believe. No different than the thousands of small business owners.

Wouldn't it be great if we could all get paid for not working. This all can be traced to the slippery slope of entitlement. When programs are started that give people something for nothing (i.e no longer contributing to production) they will fight like hell to keep it. There are retired auto workers that have been getting a pension longer than they worked at the plant. Ask a Union worker if they will give you $40 an hour out of their pocket for a week fo doing nothing except being alive and see what they say. Nearly everyone will say, "That's not the same. We deserve a pension/healthcare/benefits." Deserve is the key word. They won't even try to cover for their arrogance by using the word earned.