Feedback: What Happens to My Car if the Brand Dies?

Question by William; Subject: 96/Olsmobile/CIERA/wagon; milage 58k condition excellent. dealer serviced only. With the depletion of stock parts and dealers must draw from other distributors , how long can I expect to keep my Olds on the road? My size 14 tire are limited, and I would hate to try to find body parts.

If the big 3 go away vehicle pricing will be very interesting. The transplant automakers here in the U.S. have a capacity of about 5,000,000 vehicles annually. So with a U.S. market for 10,000,000 units there will be some interesting vehicle pricing changes. Toyota vehicles are sold for about a 25% premium in countries other than the U.S., they are less expensive here because there is competition. No worries, the needed extra vehicles can be produced in Japan and Korea, I guess we can do without those jobs anyway. The big government building contract jobs that are planned will require commercial trucks and vehicles that are made here in the U.S. by Ford and GM. None of the Japanese manufacturers have a heavy duty 3/4 or 1 ton truck capable of heavy hauling. And of course, unless all of the big government building contracts will be in metro areas, good luck getting truck service. You might think it would be funny, justifiable, great, etc. to see the big 3 go under, but I promise that you will not like it. It will affect you.

Well, let them go under. I'm sure they when the next world war comes up, we can get Toyota to make us tanks and planes and ship them here. Oh yea, and all those people that make parts for the automakers, they can all support their families flippin burgers, right? Why should we subsidize our car makers when the Japanese, Koreans, and Germans all do it regularly! Why, that would only level the playing field, and we cant have that now, can we? If they all made more fuel efficient cars all this time, they would not be in this mess, right? The fact that the biigest sellers for Toyota till recently were their nine SUV and truck models means that they must have tought that was what would sell, just like GM and the rest.I guess that maybe they all were just selling what we asked for after all. We all woke up one morning and decided to go "green", why cant the 3 largest manufacturing companies in America just turn their whole business model around in one day, like our heads did? Dorks, your all dorks...

Just for odd comment sake - hey, don't let me stop myself ! Seeing the cars put together on the assembly line always leaves me with an empty feeling - because we're so programmed to derive self esteem from the finished product. So, it's bizarre to look at the frame and think - THAT is a Caddy. Also, you get to see the somewhat 'for show' or 'phony' side too - you'll see workers slapping on HUGE plastic pieces. Now, you know, once you HAVE that car ? it's no longer JUST that piece of plastic that gets dented, or scratched, all of a sudden ? It's as if ones self esteem is scarred if the car is damaged. My prior landlord went out everyday to polish his caddy ( heh, I think he leased it too - hmm - leased self esteem, hmm ). I often thought, uh oh, if some mere happen chance event in the physics of the universe causes the car to get scratched or dented ? or damaged ? THERE GOES HIS SELF ESTEEM WITH IT. so, let's think about this. the auto sector - like the diamond cartel - has us marketed to death that our self esteem is to be derived from the car, and our true feelings are to be represented with the diamond. NOW, if the CAR is base for self esteem in American culture ? Can we deduce the car COMPANY ? ought to be too ? If so, AND that GM, Ford and Chrysler are facing demise ? I'd say that's about the same as if my prior landlord's Caddy got in a fender bender and he wasn't insured. Remember, AIG is treading water. Point here - which I stumbled across 1/2 way into this is... If the auto makers fail, this will be a black eye to the self esteem of the nation state. If there can be such a thing. Morale perhaps ? THIS was ALWAYS the downside of deriving self-esteem from a CAR ! that the car MAKERS go under ? I guess everyone will have to find a new means to derive self esteem ! Okay okay, I don't support deriving self esteem Western style - that is - from things OUTSIDE oneself, shiny objects, BMW's etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not immune to the marketing, but I AM trying to be objective on things. Perhaps if American's derive self esteem from their cars ? America has derived it's self esteem as a nation state through the entire auto industry. Nothing wrong with cars in my book - just reduce emissions (INCLUDING CO2) to zero and I'll support it. Deep black space ? you bet Gravity is our #1 force to tackle. Then climate. THEN with proper climate, we can have air that's not liquid at 450 below. Oil is what needs to go. Not the auto makers. Hmm - odd I ended up with that - but I think I can agree with that.

You're a decent guy Brian, a bit on the upper class side possibly out of touch with poverty- but I give you an A, no doubt funny, and smart - Funny without smart is never good, you make things work there on FBN. Consider this though, in asking what if the car company dies. Remember the gas prices ? the $2.99 cards ? from GM ? and Ford ? They CLEARLY bought oil futures - and to offer gas at $2.99 ? They probably paid out the nose. so those losses are sitting there right ? So, here is the question - what happens to my $2.99 GAS card if my car company goes down. Point here is no one WANTS $2.99 gas right now, but the car companies were foolish enough to GUARANTEE it for 3 years, that means they MUST have jacked up oil futures in part to do themselves in. I really do believe Lehman went down on oil futures volatility. I agree with Muriel Siebert the commodities are NOT gambling tables. They were originally designed to set the REAL price. Rampant abuse BY the companies who got so involved into oil futures as if it was some magic money making machine.... ALL got burned, and to date ? I WAGER a LOT of the bailout is because these corp's jeopardized themselves on oil greed towards profits from the oil futures. with oil below 50 ? My god - GM and Ford have to be losing their shirts. I didn't see anyone today in congress bring up how much of the loans they want will go to pay for their gambling losses. That is the unspoken truth going on here too- people GAMBLED on oil futures... and they lost. We're NOT the Saudi's - What's real funny ? The Saudi's play currency futures. Bottom line though Brian WHOLE LOTTA money lost on oil futures. Oil shouldn't even BE in our future - That we had LEADED gasoline is just unimaginable. What's the NEXT leaded gas discovery ? Mercury if you ask me. I hope you gain time to explore this regarding the oil futures hedges GM and Ford MUST HAVE MADE to offer gas at the low low price of $2.99 That should be publicized so some of congress can get wind to make SURE - the car companies can't spend a DIME of the loans on ANY oil futures losses. I WAGER the ceo's would say 'but but - that's part of our losses that caused this !' I wager. Very much enjoy the humor - keep up the good work.

Suggestion - buy two for the price of one and use one for spare parts...

It should be pay back time for the big three. They ran many car mkers out of business and now its their turn to feel some pain.

LARGEST CORP in the world Brian - EXXON second - Petro China. Do the math on who is sitting in the White House. Now, if ONLY the Bushes has a history in oil to back up my points. hmmmmm Doesn't really matter to punish them, we have a climate crisis on our hands, our kids do. ALL thanks to 60% of oil pumped goes to BURNING GAS. Maybe we should get all the oil company execs and play the game of "See who can stand closest to the exhaust if your product is all that healthy". In fact ? if you FORCED an oil exec to suck on an exhaust pipe ? You know they'd sue. Isn't that strange ? And yet - it's SAFE ?

It is the VERY US presence in the middle east trying to exploit their oil resources for the last decades that brought 9.11 Those people are mad as all hell and they are justified too. USA has NO business drilling in Iraq. NONE. And for all people to say - let's drill locally- HA Exxon, Sunoco, Conoco, BP - they ALL went on line 3 months ago in Iraq since Saddam canned it. Hmm- think THAAAAAAYAT might be the REAL reason to go to Iraq. You bet. Oil is destroying our lives Brian. The people who ONLY see profits and desire to be the Clamped's in Beverley Hills are the REAL criminals - and I think GITMO is appropriate for the oil cartel.

The car sector has possibly cost our children's FUTURE health. Coal more so, but 60% of all oil goes to gas. THAT has helped SEAL the deal - was it worth it ? we traded GAS to combat GRAVITY - all the while forfeiting CLIMATE ? was it worth it ? I don't think so. Amazing how all the car companies offer up their plans to go electric all of a sudden as if that's some kind of Wonka golden ticket to the Treasury candy factory. they were in bed with the oil cartel for FIFTY YEARS... and now ? WE are expected to pay for their incompetence ? should have moved all oil when we moved off the gold standard. Instead, we got the Bushes - TWENTY OF TWENTY EIGHT YEARS in the white house - no matter how you look at it - BUSHES. OIL OIL and OIL.

Better yet Brian What happens to my citizenship if my NATION STATE DIES ! I don't think people realized what they traded from this admin. Some 1940's yayhoo patriotic isolationist crap all the while the nation state was looted. Ever wonder WHY most of the sub prime were COASTAL properties Brian ? Ever wonder WHY Bush admin was SO ADAMANT about denying global warming ? Ever wonder WHY Cheney had the EPA remove ALL maps showing temp increases and water levels rising ? They got out. We paid. Coastal properties were sold off because they will be worth NOTHING when the cat gets out of the bag. I witnessed the insurance companies in the US on c-span - they were all saying "We need hire premiums, the water levels are rising on the coasts" and guess what maps they were using ? the VERY maps Cheney had the EPA REMOVE from their website. You can go to the internet time machine and check too - they're GONE from there too- which NEVER happens, just a BIG place holder there. Bush admin's take on global warming with denial is REALLY to buy them time to move out what they can - and run for the hills. I don't buy into Daria. ALSO ? if petro can be proven to cause global warming ? imagine the CLASS ACTION SUITS ! therefore - global warming doesn't exist - so sayeth the layers of the AUTO companies, the OIL companies. Meanwhile - we watch islands go under, water levels rise, and you know ? 1/2 of Greenland is GONE, where do you think all that water GOES ?

suprise, suprise, no investment is guarunteed. Cars are among the worst investments in the financial world, that's old news. Saturn, Volvo, Saab, chrysler, dodge, I never touched the brands because after a little homework, you can find more reliable cars for similar value that hold better resale value down the line. Hooray for capitalism and an important lesson on car shopping.

Come on these morons are not going to change they have had over 20 years look at GM and the EV1 it was a "state of the art" electric car and lots of people wanted it and what did they do when there lease was up and they wanted to buy them from GM they ground them up for scrap. Or did everyone forget and not see the documentary. What happens when small business fail like they have and will continue to do do they bail us out? No way So let the market shake out who have a good business and who does not. "That is the American Way" And again look at the Union and there Job Bank. They all screwed themselves for being greedy. "Give the Tax Payers of America a Break for Once"

John; "Oh, and lets not forget about protecting our familes……" . It doesn't look like that is going to be a problem. Glock, S&W, Ruger, Winchester, et al are doing land office business. As are firearms instructors. Gun sales are up 50% nationwide since Obama won the election. And not just hunting guns, but semi-auto pistols, street sweepers, etc.

Re: Grant's comment, The Great Depression was worldwide and everyone had to deal with it whether in the US or not. Our ancestors who weren't in America had to deal with it too. As for the availability of parts for defunct brands - that won't be a problem with cars that were produced in large quantities in the immediate future. Studebaker parts were still available into the '90s and AMC parts are still available today, as are a number of defunct foreign brands. Any GM brand will have enough demand for parts that they will still be available for a long time to come.

Very odd that your example was a Saturn Aura as this is an excellent vehicle ... one of GM's better products. The individual's estimation of incredibly low vehicle value for his less than two year old Aura is complete nonsense. If you want to see the true value of this model, just go to eBay (the original low cost dealer). A three year old Aura in good condition sells for approximately 50% of its original price ... nothing unusual about this price. By the way, a well equipped 2009 Aura can be had for the low 20s ... long way from the supposed $30k range. Overall, your premise that an automobile from a bankrupt manufacturer ... or a discontinued brand / model ... quickly loses value is quite true. It does not mean they are bad vehicles, just not supported in the manner one would expect from a profitable company. The absolute best financial deal on any automobile is to purchase a 2~4 year old used vehicle in very good condition with lower than average mileage. Your wallet will be much fatter as you let someone else pay for the depreciation while you reap the value. John P.

Lets face it, by the time our government gets done with spending GOD's money (they have already gone through ours multiple times)- buying and selling cars or houses will be the least of our worries. What we will worry about will all center around making enough money to buy food, clean water and something to heat our homes with. Oh, and lets not forget about protecting our familes......

"Take that GM" ???? Do you think that GM will even notice that your quit making payments? They won't, and you will have ruined your credit. If you like the car, book value doesn't matter. Drive it till it dies. You'll be way ahead of the game. For the major GM and Ford brands, there is so much interchangeability of parts up and down the line that there won't be a problem with fixing them. Any GM dealer and any independent garage is delighted to work on Oldsmobiles, for example. Other than body trim, there are few unique mechanical parts that aren't also found on other GM brands.

GETTING EVEN WITH GM BY NOT MAKING YOUR PAYMENTS IS NOT REALITY. REALITY IS THAT THE DEALER WHO SOLD YOU THE VEHICLE PAID GM FOR IT WITH HIS FLOORING ACCOUNT LONG BEFORE YOU BOUGHT IT. WHOEVER IS HOLDING THE PAPER ON YOUR VEHICLE IS THE ONE THAT IS TAKING IT "IN THE SHORTS" ALONG WITH YOURSELF. IT'S YOUR CREDIT THAT WILL BE EFFECTED BY YOU NOT PAYING. IT'S YOUR CREDIT SCORE THAT WILL BE USED FOR ANY FUTURE CREDIT CHECKS THAT WILL SHOW THE EFFECT OF LATE PAYMENTS OR A POSSIBLE VOLUNTARY REPO. GRANTED, THE VEHICLE THAT YOU BOUGHT, ALONG WITH ANY OTHER HARD ASSET THAT YOU MAY HAVE, HAS LOST VALUE. JUST ABOUT ALL OF US ARE IN THE SAME SITUATION. THIS IS NOT A TIME FOR EMOTIONAL DECISIONS, IT IS A TIME FOR CLEAR THINKING ON HOW WE CAN BEST SURVIVE WHATEVER MAY LAY AHEAD OF US.

If you buy and hold (not the stock the car) and pick a good model it will be a good time to bargin shop for used cars (i.e. but it and drive the wheels off it then what you sell it for years down the road will be minimal diff).

As long as there is a demand for any part there will be a supply. Willy's Jeeps haven't been manufactured since the 60's but the parts are still made. Ford no longer makes tractors, but parts aren't in short supply. And I might also add that that the resale value of Ford tractors keeps going up, not down. I owned a 1990 Oldsmobile Cutlass Sedan that was paid for, ran great and could still get parts for should it need them. (It was given to a friend in needed reliable transport.) There was a time in U.S. automobile history when reasonably priced reliable vehicles were built. (e.g. my 1979 Chevy Scottsdale 4WD) Tough economic times hit some harder than others and that is sad considering that unless your family moved to the U.S. after 1929 ALL of our ancestors had to deal with the Great Depression. Unfortunatly those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat the suffering. American manufacturing wages cannot compete in a global manufacturing market. Mexico can build it cheap, the Phillipines cheaper, China the cheapest. To return to the point, your vehicles are worthless only because everyone one now knows that new cars are engineered to fail in a set amount of time to encourage the sale of more vehicles. You couldn't give me a new car or truck from any of the "Big 3." I really have no sympathy for anyone who pays $30,000 for a means of transport and then complains that it retains no value. That is $5,000 less than the median income for my state. To not know that nearly half of a "New" vehicles value (I call it the sucker price) is gone the second you drive off the lot is laughable at best. Maybe I'm just living in the dark ages but things seen pretty bright for most folks around here. I have yet to hear of anyone who has been living within their means losing their home or car.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler can't survive long term by diluting the brand. They need to consolidate to compete. Those stuck with "orphaned" brands will continue to receive service from the brands that survive. If no brands survive, expect someone to step in to honor warranty work for a period of time, and factory replacement parts should remain available as well. Even if they do declare Chapter 11, conventional wisdom would indicate that they are not going to disappear. There are still brands that have value long term, and there is a liquidation, someone will likely invest in those brands with a new, modern business model and actually make money. If they can't make money, what's the point? Taxpayers shouldn't be propping it up for the sake of maintaining artificial employment levels - leave that crap to the Socialists/Communists. Longer term, resale value will plummet. But let's be honest; its not like any modern American cars have held strong value over a 2-5 year period. The beating will be worse, but its still a beating regardless. Understand that at least part of the reason for this is that there are 1000 cars just like yours within a 5 miles radius to choose from - they may not have the same name as yours, but there are at least two and as many as four or five derivatives of that car readily available. Car's aren't investments. You mention residual value - did you lease this car or buy it? If you leased it, consider yourself fortunate; you can walk away at the end. You were never going to have equity in it anyway. Oh, and its pure genius to stop sending your car payment in. No, seriously. It's a brilliant plan: stop making payments, let the bank reposes your car, and destroy your credit rating so when its time to buy/lease a new car, you won't be able to unless you have cash. We still make plenty of "stuff" here. Much of it is specializes, and a lot of it centers around things like Pharmaceuticals and Technology. We still build lots of boats, airplanes, hospital equipment, food, and more steel than most people think. Its not traditional manufacturing in many cases, but we're still creating an innovating. If we want to maintain an auto industry, we have to completely retool/restructure it to compete globally, just like we do with other products. I'd suggest you take a look at Toyota, Hyundai, BMW, and Nissan if you don't think we can build cars profitably in this country. There are clear reasons why thy have been successful, and the Big Three need to figure it out. It is painful and unfortunate, but ultimately someone is going to get screwed. We've been skirting this for a long time but it was inevitable. Bailing out the Big Three will accomplish NOTHING but postpone the end game unless labor contracts and pension issues are addressed, to say nothing of the bloated dealer network and complete lack of leadership. I sucks that it has to happen on your watch, but it is going to have to happen on someone's watch, like it or not.

I've worked with over 24 carmakers over the past 25 years (but not directly with the Big3). While most of them have been great successes, others have not and represent brands that have "disappeared" from the USA market. There are federal laws that dictate that a carmaker who leaves the marketplace must keep parts available for 5 years. Remember Yugo ... you can still get parts for it from Zastava or Fiat. Peugeot hasn't been actively sold in the USA since 1993, but you can still get parts for them today. Please understand that there is a healthy aftermarket for most of the Big3 vehicles parts. A fundamental law of economics is that demand creates its own supply. The reason why the Olds vehicle mentioned has no resale value is that its brand has lost all of its equity. People choose to buy cars for more than basic transportation ... they are an "image" that "says who they are". That Olds was probably purchased at a very heavy discount after GM announced that it was killing the brand! Good service shops have the ability to source parts for cars ... from salvage operations if necessary. I'm not concerned about parts for my Saab, even though it is one of the brands "on the block". Quite frankly, Saab will probably be more effective if it comes out from under the GM umbrella ... if it can deal with the significant labor cost disadvantage that comes from manufacturing in Sweden!

Here's a model that is good for 20 years or so. Doesn't use any gas, diesel or electricity. Easy to park. Can tow a trailer. Climbs steep hills, fords streams. It will fertilize your garden and mow your grass. Excellent trade in, and can be had new for under $1000. When it dies, you can even eat it. It's called a Horse.

John, You are spot on. The fact that people need new expensive cars (they can't afford) is the crux of the problem. I save for a car and drive it until it dies, then buy a new one. This is the nature of people that only buy what they can afford. If people used this philosophy we wouldn't be in this mess. A brand that goes out of business is mute. You drive it until it dies and buy parts at auto supply shops. I feel that once the big auto companies clean up their act, they will be in much better shape and will build better more desirable cars. If dealers want the repair business, they will continue to repair a model that goes away. Chris G